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	<title>Comments on: Tendrils</title>
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	<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609</link>
	<description>bright green Jesus politics</description>
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		<title>By: Lynton</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838952</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838952</guid>
		<description>Angchap has a copy of that excellent book in their library. It led me to appreciate the Eastern Orthodox tradition and relics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angchap has a copy of that excellent book in their library. It led me to appreciate the Eastern Orthodox tradition and relics.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838951</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 07:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838951</guid>
		<description>I thought I&#039;d read your copy. If not, it must have been mine, in  which case I&#039;ve lent it and not had it back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought I&#8217;d read your copy. If not, it must have been mine, in  which case I&#8217;ve lent it and not had it back.</p>
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		<title>By: dennis bartlett</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838950</link>
		<dc:creator>dennis bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 06:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838950</guid>
		<description>can I borrow it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>can I borrow it</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838947</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838947</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ben. Making a good life in the face of terrible knowledge is our task. (Perhaps this is why I like all the Germans I know; it&#039;s that first school trip to a concentration camp.) It is hard to know what to do with the knowledge that e.g. bits of my cellphone were involved in bloody wars in Africa.

FWIW, I first started taking the Palestinian side after reading Theodore Dalrymple&#039;s &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Mountain-Journey-Christians-Middle/dp/0805061770/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1234123829&amp;sr=1-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;From the Holy Mountain&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ben. Making a good life in the face of terrible knowledge is our task. (Perhaps this is why I like all the Germans I know; it&#8217;s that first school trip to a concentration camp.) It is hard to know what to do with the knowledge that e.g. bits of my cellphone were involved in bloody wars in Africa.</p>
<p>FWIW, I first started taking the Palestinian side after reading Theodore Dalrymple&#8217;s <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Mountain-Journey-Christians-Middle/dp/0805061770/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1234123829&#038;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">From the Holy Mountain</a></em>.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Hoyt</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838946</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Hoyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 18:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838946</guid>
		<description>Matt, good point about boycotts and looking at the big picture of how our work affects things -- fully agree we need to do more of this.

Sorry for being unhelpfully provocative about bandwagons. Kathy&#039;s probably right, because I admit to not actually following the media very closely. It&#039;s probably partly because I&#039;m already biased, so I only hear them when they say stuff I question. (Like how it &quot;always rains at a picnic&quot; -- it doesn&#039;t, but you only remember the times when it does.)

Still, when I hear or read stuff that makes me question, I&#039;m asking, &quot;How can they be so sure of that? Why does this seem awfully one-sided?&quot; So Matt writes, then Rudy replies, and I&#039;m thinking, &quot;Hmmm, yes. There seem to be two very strong and very different perspectives on this. Who&#039;s right?&quot;

Perhaps I&#039;m head-in-the-sand, but one reason I don&#039;t fancy the interweb is because we hear about all these problems everywhere, and it appears at first that we can really understand and do something about them (other than write opinionated comments on a friend&#039;s blog :-). Then it turns out we can&#039;t, and we&#039;re stuck with tons of terrible knowledge we can&#039;t use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, good point about boycotts and looking at the big picture of how our work affects things &#8212; fully agree we need to do more of this.</p>
<p>Sorry for being unhelpfully provocative about bandwagons. Kathy&#8217;s probably right, because I admit to not actually following the media very closely. It&#8217;s probably partly because I&#8217;m already biased, so I only hear them when they say stuff I question. (Like how it &#8220;always rains at a picnic&#8221; &#8212; it doesn&#8217;t, but you only remember the times when it does.)</p>
<p>Still, when I hear or read stuff that makes me question, I&#8217;m asking, &#8220;How can they be so sure of that? Why does this seem awfully one-sided?&#8221; So Matt writes, then Rudy replies, and I&#8217;m thinking, &#8220;Hmmm, yes. There seem to be two very strong and very different perspectives on this. Who&#8217;s right?&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps I&#8217;m head-in-the-sand, but one reason I don&#8217;t fancy the interweb is because we hear about all these problems everywhere, and it appears at first that we can really understand and do something about them (other than write opinionated comments on a friend&#8217;s blog :-). Then it turns out we can&#8217;t, and we&#8217;re stuck with tons of terrible knowledge we can&#8217;t use.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838944</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 04:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838944</guid>
		<description>Also regarding the Israeli bandwagon -- the site listing the companies is run by the &lt;a href=&quot;http://coalitionofwomen.org/home/english&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Coalition of Women for Peace&lt;/a&gt;, which is an &lt;em&gt;Israeli&lt;/em&gt; organisation. Are Jewish anti-occupation protesters just jumping on a bandwagon too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also regarding the Israeli bandwagon &#8212; the site listing the companies is run by the <a href="http://coalitionofwomen.org/home/english" rel="nofollow">Coalition of Women for Peace</a>, which is an <em>Israeli</em> organisation. Are Jewish anti-occupation protesters just jumping on a bandwagon too?</p>
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		<title>By: kathyb</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838943</link>
		<dc:creator>kathyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 01:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838943</guid>
		<description>The list when you follow that link is great. Quite extensive. This is one thing I love about the interweb - it can give you the information to make properly informed consumer decisions.I think the research that would go into finding stuff like this out before the interweb would have been so off putting, you&#039;d never get round to it. 

It&#039;s kind of amusing to suggest that all the media is pro Palestine when I keep hearing about terrorist this and terrorist that every hour on the hour. 
It really does seem we all want democracy, so long as the elected party is the one we are feeling most comfortable with. It is hard for me to see how for instance MOSSAD is less of a bunch of murderous terrorists than anyone else. 
I would like it to be true that everyone does what they believe is right ie: sit down and consider the implications of their work, who they work for, where the end product ends up etc, but I would say it&#039;s more likely most people don&#039;t have any strong belief they&#039;re right as such, they just don&#039;t think about it. We are all guilty of it one way or another. Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The list when you follow that link is great. Quite extensive. This is one thing I love about the interweb &#8211; it can give you the information to make properly informed consumer decisions.I think the research that would go into finding stuff like this out before the interweb would have been so off putting, you&#8217;d never get round to it. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of amusing to suggest that all the media is pro Palestine when I keep hearing about terrorist this and terrorist that every hour on the hour.<br />
It really does seem we all want democracy, so long as the elected party is the one we are feeling most comfortable with. It is hard for me to see how for instance MOSSAD is less of a bunch of murderous terrorists than anyone else.<br />
I would like it to be true that everyone does what they believe is right ie: sit down and consider the implications of their work, who they work for, where the end product ends up etc, but I would say it&#8217;s more likely most people don&#8217;t have any strong belief they&#8217;re right as such, they just don&#8217;t think about it. We are all guilty of it one way or another. Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudy Verbeek</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838941</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Verbeek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 13:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838941</guid>
		<description>Hi Matt,

perhaps EDS believe they&#039;re on the right side - the side that doesn&#039;t have a bunch of murderous, thieving terrorists as government.  The side with all the suicide bombs and money, and stuff they regularly steal from their own people - eg. emergency relief supplies etc.

You believe you&#039;re right, they believe they&#039;re right.

Peace, Rudy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Matt,</p>
<p>perhaps EDS believe they&#8217;re on the right side &#8211; the side that doesn&#8217;t have a bunch of murderous, thieving terrorists as government.  The side with all the suicide bombs and money, and stuff they regularly steal from their own people &#8211; eg. emergency relief supplies etc.</p>
<p>You believe you&#8217;re right, they believe they&#8217;re right.</p>
<p>Peace, Rudy</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838939</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 09:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838939</guid>
		<description>The boycott question is difficult... it&#039;s a running sore perpetually reopened by the parable of the good Samaritan (&quot;who is my neighbour?&quot;). But I wasn&#039;t suggesting that you boycott HP or EDS, I was pointing to the way that many people (perhaps most of us, and particularly technical people) have a tendency to keep our heads down, work on the task at hand, without consideration for hour our efforts are contributing to more or less evil structures. We have to expand our boundaries of consideration.

Your analogy is ridiculous -- EDS aren&#039;t five stages away, they&#039;re right there, and they&#039;ve taken a side. The wrong side; the side with all the big guns and money.

Also, I&#039;m annoyed at your implication that I&#039;m riding on a bandwagon re. Israel/Palestine. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The boycott question is difficult&#8230; it&#8217;s a running sore perpetually reopened by the parable of the good Samaritan (&#8220;who is my neighbour?&#8221;). But I wasn&#8217;t suggesting that you boycott HP or EDS, I was pointing to the way that many people (perhaps most of us, and particularly technical people) have a tendency to keep our heads down, work on the task at hand, without consideration for hour our efforts are contributing to more or less evil structures. We have to expand our boundaries of consideration.</p>
<p>Your analogy is ridiculous &#8212; EDS aren&#8217;t five stages away, they&#8217;re right there, and they&#8217;ve taken a side. The wrong side; the side with all the big guns and money.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m annoyed at your implication that I&#8217;m riding on a bandwagon re. Israel/Palestine.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Hoyt</title>
		<link>http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/archives/1609/comment-page-1#comment-838938</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Hoyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 09:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mhjb.co.nz/blog/?p=1609#comment-838938</guid>
		<description>But enough armchair philosophy. I&#039;m off to cuddle a crying baby ... :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But enough armchair philosophy. I&#8217;m off to cuddle a crying baby &#8230; :-)</p>
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