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RDB & MHJB do decree:
If you are in a no-car household you will get free local bus usage from now on.
Are you paying for this?
The gumnt will pay!
you’ve got my vote
that is ridiculous
Sounds a tad difficult to police and fund.
wof’s and reg’s and licences and road user charges are difficult to police.
pollution and fatal accidents and killing arab’s for oil are difficult to fund.
I think free busses for car-free (i.e. conscientious or poor) people is relatively easy.
Richard: I hate to get fired up on a blog but…ridiculous polemic!
1) (this is not the ridiculous part) How are wofs etc difficult to police?
2) (this is ridiculous) ‘killing arabs for oil’ is a stupid thing to say.
3) ‘car-free (i.e. conscientious or poor)’: that’s a dumb thing to say too.
please do tell how they ‘gumnt’ will pay? I am interested to hear how they will pay for something that will:
a – be a large large expense (because people would no doubt use it (and good for them) and possibly more people would use the bus system than usual so costs go up to run the service.
b – will not have any income to cover it (will this come from general tax? or will petrol tax go up to cover it? but what about those who own a car and get rid of it to be able to use this free system which means less tax revenue to the govt from lost petrol tax takings).
and what about the poor rural farmer who has a car (because there is no local bus for him to catch)… why should he have to pay for transport when others get it for free?
I’m not against the idea by any means, I kind of like it, but to me it’s pointless to decree some nice ideal with no explanation. You are helping no one by not helping yourself.
Goodluck trying to sell the idea to cityline etc also. And the government for that matter, as im sure all of them probably wouldn’t give a crap.
Friends, friends, these are all important issues.
1. I realise wof’s etc are not difficult to police, as such. My point is that when someone first said, “I reckon we should force all cars to be have a WoF (etc.)”, there would have been someone in the equivalent position to your’s saying, “that will be far too hard to implement / keep track of / police.” I.e. Car ownership involves a tonne of regulations and forms and compliance costs and blah; a free-bus passport for car-free households seems a relatively small challenge in comparison.
2. As for killing arabs, I’m serious. The logic that says everyone needs a car (that runs on oil) is the same logic that justifies going into someone else’s country to get that oil. No, I’m not saying that everyone who owns a car is killing 6.2 Arabs per fortnight. I’m just using cars as a prolific symptom of an excessively consumptive culture. Where excessively consumptive = evil.
3. I don’t know what your complaint is, so I will explain myself a little: city people that choose to not own a car do so because they can’t afford it, or because they conscientiously object. I, for one, am a bit of both. What’s the stupid bit of that? My point is that both conscientious and poor people ‘deserve’ a free bus.
Now David, dear, dear cousin David. How much will it cost?
Cost is measured in more than money, espescially when comparing non-renewable-fueled 1-tonne personal vehicles with electric busses. It is convenient to express things in terms of money so I will do so. Here’s a quick example off the top of my head:
Transmission Gully / Centennial Highway is going to cost at least half a billion dollars. New roads are a symptom of too many cars or not enough public transport. This is an example of one project to support Western one-person-per-car culture. What could you do to the public transport network (specifically intra-city busses) with half a billion dollars? I suspect you could double its capacity overnight, or eliminate fares.
The point is that cars are very, very, very much more expensive than effective and cheap/free public transport.
As for rural people and so forth, that’s a separate issue. I’m concerned with city-folk. I don’t believe the average city dweller needs a car. I absolutely don’t need a car. A city and its suburbs and hinterland should be organised around the concept of Walking Distance Where Possible.
I could go on, but you might as well just watch that guy on I ♥ Huckabees rant about the gasoline crisis.
now that’s what I call some good points.
2) Who said everyone needs a car? And who says you have to kill Arabs to get oil?
3) You needed to specify your target right from the get-go, ie. city folk as opposed to country folk. There are other categories (like people who happen to live close enough to everything), but to argue those would be pedantic.
consumptive culture says everyone needs a car. consumptive culture says you have to kill arabs to get oil. consumptive culture is neccesarily violent and greedy.
chud, I own a car (assembled right here in NZ, Petone in fact). I don’t think everyone needs a car. I try to use my car only wehn needed (eg, I scoot to paknsav or walk, don’t drive). I even purchased a car with a ‘small’ engine so as to not use big gas dollars like many big engine cars do. am I in the comsumptive killing culture that you talk of? You make some very sweeping statements that may have some merit, but are a very big put off to many of your audience I’m sure. It’s not helping your message.
Dave I suggest your m.p.g. would equate to a turbo charged Honda Civic so don’t be cute just cos its old doesn’t make it any less consumptive than the Jap equivalent. All you are doing with your wee car is indulging in nostalgia. There is enough steel in your car to make two Japos (further consumption).
For what it is worth Richard has a brilliant idea in my opinion which is probaly about 5 years ahead of its time.
Signed your favourite HQ driving uncle.
Oil also = plastic, no? Isin’t matthews computer and your cellphone killing arabs too? Poor brothers.
In countries where the public transport system is more used than cars but you still pay for it, what say you to them?
Brilliant suggestions Rich and Matt, brilliant rebuttals.
More public transport, less single-user cars would be a very good thing … provided public transport gets you places. And I don’t know that “free” will do that …
Or alternatively you would be made to pay everytime you travel in a not public transport
… Like filling up your car, Anon?
we are not just talking free public transport for households with no car, it was stated that it would be free ‘local’ public transport… I presume that anything further than ‘local’ would have to be paid for?
Dear uncle, most honda civics don’t come fitted with turbos… but no doubt you knew that. ;-) My car does 9.9 ks to the litre… my old ford laser did 10.7ks to the litre. So sure, it’s not the most effiecent beast, but it’s still better mileage than many a 91′ Ford Falcon (4litre 6cylinder) I’d like to think. let me know if I’m wrong please. And sure, I enjoy the nostalgia, but other reasons we brought it were: 1. locally assembled (isn’t free local public transport partly about getting around local and supporting local and living loca?) 2. why buy a new car which has taken many millions of ‘consumptive’ dollars to build/design when there are still old working cars out there. 3. why buy a new car which will ‘consume’ your dollars as soon as you drive it off the lot in depreciation when at least with my car I can sell it one day for at least the same amount that I bought it.
I would like to think that some of my intentions and actions are not necessarily ‘consumptive’ in nature, yet some of the sweeping statements in some comments has labeled me an Arab killer and also violent and greedy.
I too think the general idea is fantastic. But if there has been a failure to explain things well and sweeping judging statements have been stated instead then the idea may as well never have been spoken.
Yeh too right! consumptive culture says everyone needs shoes. consumptive culture says you have to kill arabs to get oil to make our rubber soles. consumptive culture is neccesarily violent and greedy, and places millions of children in sweat shops. Therefore I demand that ‘no-sweat’ shoes also be free
I will subsidise anyone who wants to purchase some No Sweat shoes.
Can you reimburse me for mine then? Although I dont ware them anymore because my NYC Superstars are far more hip-hop.
And being hip-hop is far more indie than being ethical.
government subsidization requires taxation.
‘free’ buses aren’t free.
money going round in circles.
better to let people spend their money on what they want.
David, precious cousin David…
I’m talking about issues and cultures and systems. I’m not judging individuals. Of course some of your intentions and actions are not necessarily ‘consumptive’ in nature. It would be pure hypocrisy of me to suggest that you, as an individual member of a consumptive culture, are irredeemably and wholly evil.
I’m not labelling you an Arab-killer at all. But I stand by the statement that Western culture is greedy and violent to the core.
We have free buses in Auckland. And they’re hybrid-engined too.
Problem is they just don’t go anywhere I need to go.
You actually need a car if you live in most parts of Auckland. The mess was so poorly planned from the day ‘dot’ that implementation of efficient effective public transport is nigh impossible.
Switzerland is a whole bunch of small villages connected by fast quiet electric trains, with small local bus and/or tram networks. And it was grouse.
Wellington has a much better public transport system than does Auckland, so your idea might be fine for Welly, but it would do squat up here, I’m afraid.
(Joke about sweaty shoes in response to Jono’s proposal)
Government subsidy can be a good thing. Taxation has its place. It depends …
man richface is smart. man tim is funny. perth has free inner city public transport as an incentive for pricks to stop using their cars. and they are all friggin rich over here. nothing in this world is free? bullshit. those buses are.
Thanks richdog for that authoritative word from beyond
Um, Richdog, Perth’s public transport system is also overloaded with wierdos. I dont want to see Wellington’s go the same way.
You obviously don’t travel on the Island Bay route very often Tim…
True. So perhaps the question we should be asking is how do we rid our public transport of freaks and wierdos?
Perhaps the question we should be asking is how do we prevent all our discussions, both online and in real life, from degenerating into comedy?
Yes. I vote we stop lightening up and be serious all the time.
I propose the government to initiate a ‘no fun’ bill. Fun will be taxed, hung and quartered!
Richard, I applaud your question and I myself am one who should humbly consider it.
How many of you little Bartletts are out there? – Seem to be alot of you. How about a family tree on your site?
There are 17 of us. I am the coolest one.
Anywho, who’s asking?
I’m anymouse passing through with a passing thought that a cool family blog should have a who’s who? But now I know there are 17 and Digby is the coolest. (I have no info to the contrary) Go Digby!
you hippy fucks should buy a car, nay, a massive v8. that way you’d have something sizeable enough to tow your issues around with!
I am a in-valid. WCC gives me cheap bus fares i.e. $1.40 to anywhere outside of 4-6pm and b4 9am when it’s full cost. This, I think is a good deal. Almost free.
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